The Impact of Forest Carbon Offsets with Whitney Flanagan
In this insightful episode of We Are Not Doomed, host Jonah Geil-Neufeld sits down with Whitney Flanagan, Director of Marketing at Finite Carbon, to dive deep into the world of forest carbon offsets. Whitney shares her journey from growing up in the beautiful forests of East Tennessee to working with North America's leading developer of nature-based climate solutions. Together, they explore how Finite Carbon helps landowners protect forests while generating revenue through the carbon offset market, ensuring that our most valuable natural resources are conserved for future generations.
Whitney explains the key difference between voluntary and compliance carbon markets and highlights the powerful role forest carbon offsets play in combating climate change. The conversation also sheds light on real-world projects, like the partnership with the Pasamaquoddy tribe in Maine, which has used carbon finance to support community initiatives such as substance abuse programs and COVID protection efforts. This episode is packed with inspiring examples of how forest conservation is not only preserving nature but also improving lives.
Chapters:
02:33 – Whitney’s journey: From Appalachia to climate advocacy
06:12 – What is a forest carbon offset?
10:42 – Voluntary vs. compliance carbon markets explained
14:30 – The Pasamaquoddy tribe’s inspiring forest conservation project
19:43 – Buyers of carbon credits and the impact on consumer choices
22:04 – How climate change has affected Whitney personally
27:37 – Whitney’s hope for the future of climate action
Links:
Episode Transcript:
Whitney Flanagan (00:00):
There's a story behind these projects. And without the projects in place, these beautiful lands may have a different outcome and this landowner may have had to make decisions with a market that's pressuring them from all sides to develop to change course and do something that preserves the land.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (00:29):
Hello and welcome to We Are Not Doomed. We bring you interviews with industry leaders, authors, journalists, and real people who've been making an impact on climate change. Every day We Are Not Doomed is produced by Puddle Creative. We're a full service podcast production agency. And I'm Jonah Geil-Neufeld, the executive producer. Today. My guest is Whitney Flanagan, the director of marketing for Finite Carbon. Finite Carbon is North America's leading developer and supplier of forest carbon offsets. Today in our interview, Whitney and I talk about voluntary and compliance carbon markets concepts I was not aware of before this interview, and it was really great to get her insight and perspective. Whitney, as director of Marketing, gets to tell the stories of the projects and the clients that Finite Carbon works with and she gives a couple of really great examples in the stories. One of them that I loved was about the PAA McQuade tribe in the US state of Maine. I really think you'll enjoy this interview with Whitney Flanagan. If you like the podcast, please give us a follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. We would also love if you would leave a rating and a review, it really helps the show. Without further ado, here's our interview.
(01:51):
So welcome Whitney Flanagan to We Are Not Doomed the podcast. Thanks for being here.
Whitney Flanagan (01:57):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (01:59):
Of course, you are the director of Marketing at Finite Carbon Now, which is one of North America's leading developers of supplier of carbon forest offsets. And we're going to talk a bit about what that means. I'm coming into it as complete newbie in terms of carbon offsets, so you hopefully can explain some stuff to us. But before we dive into what you guys do and all of that, I want to just back up and ask you about how you got started in working in a climate related field and involved in this work.
Whitney Flanagan (02:33):
So really my career in climate has been an evolution throughout I think my entire life and then into my career. And I'd say it started from my roots back in Appalachia in northeast Tennessee where I was born and raised. It's an area that is surrounded by wild rivers and national parks, like the great Smoky Mountains and Blue Ridge Parkway and Vast Forest. And it's really where I formed a strong love and need for nature in my life. And I was fortunate enough to kind of marry that love with my career later on in my twenties when I started working at a conservation nonprofit called the Conservation Fund in Washington dc. And it's there that I got schooled honestly in how landscapes the ones I grew up around were protected. It takes a lot of money and resources and collaboration and all kinds of things that behind the scenes you don't really think about when you're in a national park or a protected area.
(03:41):
And so those landscapes, when they're protected, they benefit people and whole communities and ecosystems. So it was an incredible opportunity that I had there to kind of tell that story and uplift that narrative from a place of passion just about the subject matter. And from there it led me to my current role at Finite Carbon where I get to distinctly market the importance of natural climate solutions such as forest carbon offsets and the role that they play in cooling down our warming planet. So as I said, it's really been an evolution and I feel like a full circle moment right now in my life to really look back and kind of be able to point to where I'm from and the impact that that place has kind of made on my career and in my life.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (04:33):
When you care about this stuff, sometimes you're like, maybe I grew up around nature or I love hiking on the weekends, but I haven't necessarily connected it to my job yet. So it's just really cool to hear people who have been able to fulfill that sense of purpose with what they do every day to make a living as well.
Whitney Flanagan (04:52):
Yeah, and I would say that I went into it, I needed a job and it became more than any job that I could ever imagine having. It became my life's passion.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (05:05):
And sometimes you kind of fall into it, like you said, you needed a job, but there was also something that you were passionate about and it became a perfect match. We have a similar story in our company. We've worked with two companies for a long time. One is BMO Bank and one is REI. And I had never really made any connections between those two clients before, but just last year we found that both companies were members of this organization called The Conservation Alliance, which brings businesses together to help protect North American natural landscapes. And so we were like, oh wow, this wasn't something we even realized was a connection between those two things. And so it really started a journey for us honestly of kind of honing our own mission as a company as well. But I want to talk about finite carbon. So you're now the director of marketing there. For people who like me have no real knowledge of what carbon offsets are, can you kind of explain the basis of what the company is and what you guys do?
Whitney Flanagan (06:12):
Absolutely. So finite carbon was established nearly 15 years ago, and what we do is we connect the forestry sector with climate finance, and that's specifically done through the development of forest carbon offsets. And understanding that that may not be super crystal clear to everyone. What is a forest carbon offset? How does that contribute to climate change solutions? Essentially we work with landowners to help develop forest carbon projects and it enables them to sell or monetize the carbon taken up by their forest, so absorbed by their forest to another entity to compensate for their emissions that were made elsewhere. So essentially forest carbon offsets, it involves a process typically where a forest could be at risk but is protected in exchange for payment.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (07:21):
Got it. And how does it work in terms of are you going to the land owners and saying, Hey, this is something that we could do? Or are the landowners coming to you? Or maybe a little bit of both. And what is involved in the forest project? Is there anything that's done to it or is it really just like we're going to conserve this as a forest and not do other things to it, like develop it for other uses?
Whitney Flanagan (07:48):
To answer your first question, how landowners find out about finite carbon, it can be either way. We are a pioneering source in the industry. We were one of the very first groups to develop forest carbon offsets in North America. And with that we are now the leading developer of nature-based climate solutions in North America in both the compliance and the voluntary markets. And we've developed more projects than anyone else, any other group. It covers over 4 million acres across North America. With that reputation, we have gained a lot of good reputation through word of mouth. So oftentimes clients do come to us. We also attend a lot of conferences where landowners are present as well as buyers of forest carbon offsets. So really it's an interweb of connections there and how that occurs. And then your second, I am not an expert specifically in forest management. However, the methodology that we used is improved forest management. What that means is it is making sure that the forest functions appropriately in its best state and managed efficiently, whether that's for timber harvesting, recreation purposes, et cetera, to ensure that it's commercially viable.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (09:27):
That definitely answers my question of like if you're imagining some of these places, it could be a variety of uses. It could be a place that has some timber industry happening on it. It could be place that has recreation. It could be any number of things, but what you guys do is basically allow the land owner to really monetize the carbon that's being taken out of the air because of this land.
Whitney Flanagan (10:02):
Right? That's accurate. Yes. It's a tool in the tool belt. There are many ways that a forest can be utilized and be managed. A forest carbon offset project is a tool in the tool belt that we want land owners to know about and understand because it's a key way that they can help protect their land while also making money.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (10:26):
And then ostensibly, because they're able to monetize this as one tool in the tool belt, then the land doesn't become developed for other purposes that might hinder the forest's ability to take carbon out of the air.
Whitney Flanagan (10:40):
Right? Absolutely. Yes, that's correct.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (10:42):
You mentioned voluntary and compliance markets. What does that mean?
Whitney Flanagan (10:48):
Sure, yes. So there are two markets, forest carbon offset projects. One is compliance, which essentially means that it's regulated, so it's required that companies offset their emissions. And then the voluntary market, which is completely separate, it's done voluntarily. So it's not required. And often companies just have requirements internally in climate related goals and it allows companies and individuals to offset those emissions voluntarily.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (11:23):
Got it. And what compliance markets exist right now in North America?
Whitney Flanagan (11:28):
In North America, the compliance market is in California. That's where it was established, and that is where finite really got its foothold. The company has generated over one third of all California's compliance offset supply. The compliance market is also moving into other states as we speak, such as Washington.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (11:53):
Okay, got it. So yeah, what does your job entail? What do you do in order to tell the story of finite carbon?
Whitney Flanagan (12:01):
Yeah, so I started directing marketing and communications at Finite about two years ago. And what my primary focus is is to uplift the stories of the projects that we are developing, the impacts of those projects and the motivation of the landowners to enter their lands into forest carbon projects. The motivations are some of the most interesting pieces of the story, and it ranges from keeping land in a family. Sometimes it's working with indigenous communities to help ensure that they're able to use own source revenue that is generated to come back to their communities. So oftentimes we have these just beautiful stories that carbon finance was able to provide landowners to fulfill financial goals that they really never thought that they could do or had any idea that this industry could help them in that way. So that's a piece of it. And another piece that I love about my job in line with storytelling is also the visual side of this work.
(13:19):
And that sometimes is in the form of video work and photography work and interviews with landowners that uplift and highlight the co-benefits of the story, sometimes the history of the landscapes. And that's such a pleasure to be able to do because sometimes I think the term forest carbon market, it seems kind of dry and how are you going to visually explain that in a way that makes it interesting to anyone? And while it is a challenge at times, it's pretty amazing to be able to say, no, look, there's a story behind these projects. And without the projects in place, these beautiful lands may have a different outcome and this landowner may have had to make decisions with a market that's pressuring them from all sides to develop to change course and do something that preserves the land.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (14:23):
Oh, that's great. Do you get to then travel to some of these places when you are doing some of the vigil storytelling?
Whitney Flanagan (14:30):
Yeah, on occasion I can get my boots on the ground, which is an amazing part of the work. And just getting to meet people and understanding their stories and is just something that is so important and valuable to the day-to-day work. I do.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (14:47):
Yeah. Not to put you on the spot, but maybe if you had an example of one of the stories, one, as you mentioned, the landowners, what the inspiration was behind doing a carbon offset, if there was one that you did recently or one that really sticks in your mind.
Whitney Flanagan (15:08):
Sure. So one project that stands out for me that finite has developed and we continue to work on with the landowners is with the Pasama tribe. They maintain land across the state of Maine. And for the past 40 years, the tribe has been repurchasing land back from the government with a goal of protection and conservation while continuing to rebuild tribal homes and communities. And so through this project, and I love hearing this story told through members of the tribe, because it's such a personal story and project to them, and the capital that they have received through the forest carbon project has really enabled a lot of advancement in their community. So the project was developed in the California compliance offset market, and as I noted, it was a tool in the tool belt. It was something, an option that they were not fully aware of.
(16:19):
And when our team members had conversations with them, they were extremely interested in learning more and potentially enrolling their land. So some of the benefits that came from them enrolling some of their land in this project supported initiatives like a successful covid protection initiative in 2020 and beyond to help protect their community from the virus. And also it helped them set up a substance abuse resources program for tribal members, which was a big challenge there and still is, but they're able to funnel resources directly to this really important need that they have in the community. And then finally, the forest. It also allows the tribe to benefit economically through the usage of land for tribal owned businesses like a maple syrup production site and a wild blueberry company. So these are all just examples of own source revenue. It's revenue generated from their forest back into their community to address pressing needs. Just an amazing example, I think of ways that the funding can be utilized and the forest can be protected.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (17:45):
It's like a win-win win. The people who are buying those forest carbon offsets are able to be able to then go back to their customers depending on what entity it is and say, look, carbon neutral in this regard or what have you. And then the landowners are getting monetary value from that. But then also, yeah, I didn't even think of if it's a community like this tribe that the whole community is benefiting from the programs that they're able to set up with this money that they've gotten. And I could even imagine a scenario in the future where maybe folks use the money to do things that help for climate resiliency. Maybe you live in an area that's on a floodplain and you need to move some houses, or you live in an area that might be susceptible to sea level rise and you have to build some hurricane proof buildings or things like that.
Whitney Flanagan (18:44):
Yeah, it really is. And you touched on something really important that I would like to elaborate on a little bit more. When you mentioned buyers, finite carbon is uniquely positioned, and I'm part of this work through the marketing and communication work that I do, is facilitating the sell of credits between the landowners and the buyers of the credits who are offsetting their emissions. And you're right, the story of the co-benefits of these projects is huge. It's so important to the investors in the buyer and the company. It's important to the staff, it's important to the consumers of companies. And so yeah, elevating what's happening on the ground and the good work that's coming from these projects is an incredibly important piece. It's not just checking a box, it's really changing lives sometimes.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (19:43):
I'm assuming it's just all different kinds of companies that are buyers of these credits. But do you have any insight into what types of companies or really any examples of companies that are buyers of these credits?
Whitney Flanagan (19:59):
So without naming names, many companies choose to voluntarily offset their emissions through forest carbon offset projects and other types of offset projects. And again, reason being is it's something that consumers want. Consumers want to purchase products from businesses that are doing good things. People are educated now and they care. Investors know that's true as well. So they typically will invest more in companies that consumers are purchasing more of. So it's a good cycle. The businesses that are voluntarily offsetting carbon are typically doing it for a really good reason since the government across North America doesn't demand it, that voluntary nature of it is, it typically comes from a really good place of wanting to be better stewards of our resources.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (21:05):
Yeah. You mentioned the consumer part of it, of you sometimes feel like you don't exactly know when you're being a discerning consumer and deciding which products to buy or services to use that you don't necessarily know how much of a difference you're making. But this is just a really great example of, as you said, I think a lot of people nowadays care about the climate and are discerning about where they spend their money. And so this is an example of partially where their money goes.
Whitney Flanagan (21:37):
Exactly. Well said.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (21:39):
Really your journey caring about climate change started with your upbringing in East Tennessee and just being around nature. Did you feel like there was a point, I feel like a lot of people, it happens in college when you started feeling like, oh, I really care about climate change or this is something that's kind of keeping me up at night, or was it just really a lifelong journey?
Whitney Flanagan (22:04):
So it was not something that happened in college. I think the trajectory for me was really living and growing up in East Tennessee and being surrounded by such beauty and just awe all the time. It was when I moved away that I missed it so much. And I thought about when I would visit home, it looked so different to me. I saw it through a different set of eyes essentially because I had learned more about how and why landscapes were protected, that it wasn't that local park up the street. It took so much work and care from so many people and organizations. And I don't know that that was ever clear to me until I started working at the conservation fund. And through that, it became so important and vital to me that those natural places that are not protected by chance and are helping our world and its citizens survive, that those places are prioritized and that we do everything that we can to help them thrive in the state of a warming planet.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (23:33):
I ask all my guests this just to sort of paint a picture of how climate change is not something that is going to affect us in the future, but it is something that is already affecting us in the here and now. Do you feel like climate change has affected your life or your surroundings already, be it where you live now or where you grew up?
Whitney Flanagan (24:00):
So climate change has absolutely had an impact on my life so far. And it's been really obvious in a couple of ways. One is that I've moved around the United States quite a bit. So from Tennessee to Washington DC to then the southwest in Santa Fe, New Mexico, then to Denver. And then now I'm in St. Louis. And something that people say everywhere I've moved is the winners used to be not as harsh or gosh, the fires are so much worse than they used to be. And that's just common language everywhere I move. And that speaks to the great changes I think that we're all experiencing. But it's something that I've heard and seen firsthand. And then also as a distance runner, I have to pay attention to air quality. And specifically whenever I was living out west in New Mexico and in Colorado both, you had to pay attention to air quality.
(25:11):
There were some days where the smoke from wildfires was so terrible that could feel it deep down in your lungs. And it was something that it wasn't just on the news and it was a warning. It was something you felt. So that was absolutely a way that climate change has impacted me directly. And then finally, I would say that climate change, I think it used to be something that people speculated, is it real? And that dialogue has really changed from is it real to what are we going to do about it? What can we do about it? In instances like the Canada wildfires last year, I mean living here in St. Louis in the middle of the country, the air was smoky. I think that's an example that is undeniable. The people around the country who are far away from those fires were saying, Hey, this is a big deal. We have to pay attention. What can we do? So I mean, I think those are some of the ways that it's touched me personally as well as a lot of other people in my life.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (26:29):
Yeah, you've had a lot of varied experiences. And I was just thinking, I live in Portland, Oregon, and probably before 2019 or so if you'd have asked people, do you know what a QI is? And most people would be like, no, no idea what that means. And now we're all so well versed in checking air quality, like you said, that everybody knows, oh, 58 a QI is good and getting up to a hundred, it's getting bad. And if it's really bad, that sort of thing of now we all have this knowledge that we didn't have just a handful of years ago because of climate change.
Whitney Flanagan (27:06):
Absolutely. And it's information that we pay attention to, we have to pay attention to.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (27:11):
So this has been so great. Thank you, Whitney, for taking the time to come and share your story, your journey, and talk about finite carbon with us. Before we let you go, I just want to ask as this is an optimistic, hopeful podcast and there's many things that might keep us up at night in terms of thinking about climate change, but what makes you hopeful for the future?
Whitney Flanagan (27:37):
There are a few things that make me really hopeful about the future in the face of climate change. The first is that the sector is expanding so rapidly, and I've seen firsthand that it's not an industry that discriminates. It needs and wants all kinds of people, from scientists to artists to marketers and beyond. The field needs support, and we're getting so much talent and the industry is really growing and will continue to, I think, thrive with the support of this new talent. Another thing that gives me hope in the face of climate change is that the next generation is being loud about what they want and what they don't want, what's acceptable and what's not. I know personally the reason I don't have children myself, but a lot of the reason that I prioritize this work is because I believe strongly in a world for our children that is livable and where they can experience the awe and joy of nature.
(28:57):
And I think that the generation behind me, generation Z, is not going to accept anything else. I think that they are really leading the way and helping us lean into a lot of change. And so they give me a lot of hope as well. I also believe that small changes in our lives can be pretty big changes, pretty significant changes. When we think of a challenge like climate change, it seems so big and so overwhelming, and it can be, but when you think of all of the things that we can just change in small ways that make a big difference, then I think that's really hopeful. Things like eliminating single use plastic in your household, or no meat on Mondays, things like that if done at a larger scale, are really effective. And I think that sometimes we can lose sight of what can be done, but it's big changes that we can solve as a collective. But it's also the day-to-Day things that we can do as households or as communities that can really expand upon good, meaningful change.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (30:23):
Yeah, that's great. Well said. And I think, like you said, it's an industry where every ounce of help is necessary and every solution is necessary. And maybe the whole theme of this podcast is, as you mentioned, that it's a tool in the tool belt, and we need every single tool that we can possibly get. So Finite Carbon is doing great work, and it's one of the many tools in the climate change tool belt. So thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. Thanks to all the great work that you and Finite Carbon are doing. Yeah, thanks for being with us.
Whitney Flanagan (31:08):
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Jonah Geil-Neufeld (31:12):
If you want to learn more about Finite Carbon, you can go to finite carbon.com. Thank you for listening to We Are Not Doomed. I'm Jonah Guile Neufeld with Puddle Creative. To find the transcript of this episode and more episodes of the podcast, go to We Are Not doomed.com. You can find us on Spotify, apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast player. Until next time, have a great week.